Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. This way control surface max deflection can be programmed by an aircraft designer to make . Thank you, I was able to reach up to 24km altitude with this design. AoA itself refers to the angle of the wing (or the whole plane if the AoI is 0)relative to the airflow. What altitude and speed should I go? In addition to the traditional giant tube of explosions that flings things up high approach, Kerbal Space Program includes a very useful piece of equipment that became quite popular in the 20th century: wings.. Download (104.45 MiB) License: CC BY-NC-SA 4.0 Game Version: 1.8.1 Downloads: 371,115 Author: blackheart612 Mod Website: Forum Thread Support this mod: Donate Followers: 626 Outdated Mod This mod is not known to work with the latest version of Kerbal Space Program. 1Altitude requirement 2Orbit 3Speed, range, and altitude 4Flight duration 5Flight profiles 5.1Ballistic missiles 5.2Tourist flights 5.3Scientific experiments 5.4Sub-orbital transportation 6Notable uncrewed sub-orbital spaceflights 7Crewed sub-orbital spaceflights 8Future of crewed sub-orbital spaceflight 9See also 10References You also need to be going very fast to generate adequate lift at high altitudes and unlike the real U-2, you don't need to fear about overspeeding and destroying the plane. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. In the game, players direct a nascent space program, staffed and crewed by green humanoid aliens known as "Kerbals". But my guess is that these same general principles would probably apply to FAR, and that all that would change would be the numbers involved. - "In Space High" means your craft is inside the given Sphere of Influence and above the "Space Border" altitude listed in the Celestial Body Multiplier Matrix. Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. I've been finding it difficult to build a jet that can fly over 15km alt. FBW uses three controllers - pitch, roll and yaw. below 5,000 m), since the engine's extreme maneuverability may allow the aircraft to perform turns sharply enough to break up in flight. Information Changelog Stats New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. It'll probably be more efficient with more intakes, but I wouldn't increase the number of engines. I didn't try for 20000m as it probably wouldn't do well. KSP Career: Episode 13 - High Altitude Surveys Mike Aben 28.5K subscribers Subscribe 7.7K views 7 years ago Day 114: A busy day at the KSC with three missions, the highlights being the launch. It's Kerbal Space Program v.22! 600+ m/s) and low altitudes (e.g. Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. For all your gaming related, space exploration needs. I don't recall if they model aspect ratio, but either way, the struts are murder and the delta wing has so much more wing that it'll still have more lift. These are the building blocks of solid spaceplane design!Subscribe! Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Or about the same speed but 1000 m higher. Are you using Stock or NEAR/FAR? Why that? So that means that even if you are inside the atmosphere but still orbital (such as during aerobraking), your science will not count as "Inside the atmosphere", For example, orbiting Kerbin above 250km altitude, your science is counted as "In Space High over Kerbin." Contents 1 Usage 2 Construction 3 Categories 3.1 Airplane 3.2 Seaplane 3.3 Spaceplane 3.4 VTOL 3.5 Glider 3.6 Mothership 4 Operation 4.1 Flight records 5 Notes Usage Valve Corporation. ksp high altitude plane. Then it is "In Space Low over Mun.". It is usually best for initial designs to be based on logic and real-world physics and then be prepared to experiment with non-logical alternatives for optimisation. lost birth certificate near berlin; ksp high altitude plane. Jets drop thrust at higher altitude and speed, but also drop . Listen to this guy, don't go much farther above 15000 with high altitude engines. At the equator, sea level temperatures vary between a nighttime low of 9 C and a daytime high of 15 C. So Pvt. No, I think it's correct, unless I've got a brain fart going, here. jet engine efficiency in this game is based on built in thrust curves. Make sure you've angled your wings up slightly so that you provide enough lift for a 0 angle of attack at top speed. Things that work at low altitude don't work so well up high and the plane ends up going up and down while slowly losing speed until it can't maintain altitude anymore. I only seem to be able to make planes that can fly a bit below that altitude and then temporary rise to it. It is designed to aid in player-controlled flight on generic (space)plane, providing a soft layer between user joystick\keyboard input and control surface outputs. Upload or insert images from URL. You arent doing anything wrong. EDIT: Didn't notice you were using FAR. If too little air runs into the turbine your combustion chamber will not be able to burn up fuel effectively due to the lack of oxygen. In my case, it brought me to 20km up at a 45-degree angle, but it is probably not optimal. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Originally posted by lord bird: yep thats right jool has a surface. Or is it the same for all celestial bodies? EDIT: Essentially, make like an SR-71, if an SR-71 didn't have cooling problems limiting it to Mach 3.4. The second, Wet mode, uses the afterburner to produce thrust almost equal to the J-X4 "Whiplash" Turbo Ramjet Engine, but at a considerably reduced fuel efficiency. I would like to know which altitude I have to maintain for my experiments. Pasted as rich text. I don't have that cockpit in my career game yet, but maybe it will work with the other one. The benefits should be obvious. Also, Valley and Theomon fly to different corners of Kerbin and three mapping satellites are launched. Subscribe - http://www.youtube.com/c/MikeAben?sub-confirmation=1 Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/MikeAbenPatreon supporters receive early, ad-free, access to videos, kOS and craft files, and more. Discord - https://discord.gg/HTvT7dZ Making Space Home Playlist - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB3Ia8aQsDKhqoFyoZ4d33MG7rS9KmDm_0:00 - Designing the Dudley Mk16:42 - Test Flights \u0026 Iterating13:45 - Col. Valley take the Seaplane to the Northern Ice Shelf19:30 - Launch \u0026 Insertion of the Maxwell Vb21:04 - Col. 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Subscribe -. That's all true, but just read the OP: hypersonic appears to be completely out of the question. . Personally, I don't enjoy survey contracts on Kerbin. Additionally please know that .16 will feature new code that will change the way space planes work in every aspect. Thanks. Maneuver node plans don't take drag into account, so you'll have to overshoot quite a bit to compensate. The Boeing X-37, also known as the Orbital Test Vehicle (OTV), is a reusable robotic spacecraft. This makes jets built using this engine considerably more maneuverable. At about 400-500m/s (~15km), the two engines are even. When I say ", You know you've nailed it correctly if, when you're in level flight, your. As long as the engine gets enough air it will work at proper efficiency. Editing Kerbal Space Program save files for KSO, Rasterpropmonitor for Kerbal Space Program. probably the easiest place to land in the system as terminal velocity is survivable for a craft less kerman. Running the 60U engine at about 40U seems to give me a good balance between reduced drag and air intake. In this chapter, you ll learn about the Space Plane Hangar, a building that forms part of the Kerbal . They always seem to lose power at about 15km, but I'm wondering if there's something I can do to fix that. Now I have a plane that will fly around the world at an altitude of the low-20s. Approximately 12km up the main engines stop providing enough thrust to maintain the climb, so it's time to switch to rocket mode. Should i add a larger wing area for higher lift? Any advices for building a vehicle for this task? The most obvious solution is try and optimize your craft for high altitude lift by giving it long wingspan like a U-2 spyplane. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? All the information you could want to know about science, including the altitudes for each celestial body, and what altitudes a given experiment works on are available at: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Science. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Best way to get down into thicker air and land is to perform what dogfighters called a 'Split-S'. Cookie Notice What are the minimum altitudes for each warp level? But a rockets can do it. But you'll need to unlock: High Altitude Flight Which cost 300 science. Delta wings are able to work better since the lack of lift per square area is compensated by having larger area to provide lift. If it's above the cross-hairs, you need a little less. So if you want to make a plane go as fast as possible, you want to minimise both angle of attack and angle of incidence necessary to sustain level flight at your target speed and altitude. This can make it a good alternative for when you want something that can be controllable and doesn't need excessive heat shielding, but still need to be able to go incredibly fast if necessary, at the expense of increased fuel consumption. Clear editor. Grichman's answer got me in the right direction. Imagine that first plane but with the bubble cockpit and the old style round intakes. Here's my example of dealing with the situation. Is anywhere a list of the altitude levels (I don't know a better term) available? Your link has been automatically embedded. Your link has been automatically embedded. @SaintWacko's advice is probably the most practical. Typically, I watch my Apoapsis as I boost to the high altitude, and there's enough momentum to coast to the peak before completely running out of fuel. Your previous content has been restored. My plane has turbojets and lots of fuel, but I am wondering what the optimal way to fly is. 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high atmospheric science. Well, this game isn't a perfect flight simulator yet, so it will be difficult to figure out. It is stable but can not maintain altitude. It seems to be based on the General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, which shares the same name and maximum thrust (85 kN dry). That's sub-optimal, because having the fuselage pitched like that means it'll have more drag than it otherwise would have. Air temperatures vary with latitude and time of day. I should perhaps start trying out NEAR to get ready of 0.90, though. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? It may work with stock too, I just don't know. Secondly don't think of engines working better at different altitudes, think of them working better with different air intake quantities. You will find that when you're flying around, will always be slightly below the crosshairs on the navball. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. Press J to jump to the feed. Have a plane that ditches its wings and rockets up to 18km once you reach the right point. It is somewhat slow but very steady in flight. That would oscillate slowly between 16000m and 17000m but was otherwise fully controllable. Privacy Policy. This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar at high altitudes! The ideal case for optimally efficient flight (which is what you want if you're trying to maximize cruise altitude) is when your wings are mounted to the body, pitched up just enough that when cruising in level flight, the body of the aircraft is pointing perfectly . So, to correct " is below crosshairs", what you need to do is to add a little AoA to the wings. Sideslip handling. Turbojets are so ridiculously efficient that it doesn't really matter. Basically there are two things that limit your maximum speed: thrust and speed of sound and with that your maximum altitude. What am I doing wrong here in the PlotLegends specification. If you nudge your wing's angle up slightly with rotate tool then it'll move your prograde closer to your direction of flight and significantly reduce drag. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Also, jets eat fuel at pounds-per-minute -- if you cover twice as much ground in the same time, your plane will be more efficient. I followed a similar strategy. A little while back I spent a long time trying to circumnavigate Kerbin on the least liquid fuel possible (i posted the record to the sub: 254 units of fuel. Will post my results. Your engine burns the same amount of jetfuel per second regardless of how high or fast you are! Your previous content has been restored. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? Been a while since I've flown stock*, but I've heard that, for maximum efficiency, you want one turbojet for every 7.5 tons, and about four ram intakes for each turbojet. As long a you can fly faster, the lower density at altitude can be compensated for. From my observations I can say that "Efficiency" is not a good indicator of how well your engine performs. There are two factors to that: how thick the air is, how fast the ship is going. It is boosted into space by a launch vehicle, then re-enters Earth's atmosphere and lands as a spaceplane. Challenges This means it is better to have excessive amounts of oxygen than not to. I also had problems with a high altitude plane until I decided to follow the K.I.S.S. Of course, this thing has very limited range, speed and acceleration because of the extra weight. As you found out, it basically konks out at 15km. Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. Or you need to put a little bit of angle of incidence in your wings, which will reduce drag since you don't have to pitch the entire plane up, but will be stuck at a fixed angle meaning you'll have to pitch up or down anyway during certain phases of the flight that the plane isn't optimised for. I'm in career mode (have the turbofan engine) and trying to get some science readings for a mission at a high altitude. The sweet spot for the upper atmo engines, I find, is between 10k and 12k. Along with rockets, planes are one of KSP's most commonly referenced kinds of vessel, and are a vessel type . Note that KSP planes get one substantial speed benefit that's much more pronounced than IRL aircraft, due to the freakishly small planet sizes: they're actually flying at a large fraction of orbital velocity. Pasted as rich text. Is it even possible? Isn't that backwards snark? with a thrust vectoring range of only 3 degrees. It only takes a minute to sign up. You can post now and register later. Clear editor. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? The Rapier, for example, works great as a high-altitude engine, precisely because it can go so fast. Pretty often, the tail "wiggled" and/or the plane became totally unstable when I fired the rocket boosters. Yes, although they have only been flown with nearly full tanks. "Whiplash" Turbojet. Highest and fastest possible is best. Because of the exponential nature of the rocket equationthe orbital rocket needs to be considerably bigger. This works, but it's not optimal. You can post now and register later. A well-designed jet with this engine and with the afterburner lit, flown properly, can momentarily climb to 30,000 m altitude. With some fins to keep you stable and careful aim, you can hit your desired location and altitude and will have 5-10 seconds to collect data before you hurtle past it and pull your chute. Welcome to the forums. When added to a plane it allows tuning of the controls vs speed/altitude/G load/other factors. Really. Display as a link instead, Though I'm still working on learning to be better at space planes. You could try combining the two. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. That will probably allow you to fly comfortably above 20-25km (or higher, depending on the overall mass of your aircraft). Right now, my big, fat plane has trouble breaking 10 km altitude and 200 m/s forward speed (largely due to its payload). So I've created those two planes, both with weasley turbofan engine: This is your problem-- as folks have pointed out, it's not a high-altitude engine. What are the altitudes for the various altitude record contracts? One problem is i'm running stock on career mode and only have 30 part to spare, so large planes are out of the question. There are no requirements as far as size or power are concerned, as the AI Pilot is capable of flying pretty much anything - from tiny scout planes to oversized freight craft. Planes in Space. Content titles and body; Content titles only I start with the normal jet engines (which takes almost the complete runway). Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. You may be correct and that 3 engine plane is a lemon. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. In the stock atmosphere, the benefits of moving faster outweigh almost everything else. You cannot paste images directly. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? at the very least, you'd need the panther, that'll get you over 16k easily, well to 25k. As I understand, the OP wanted "the most efficient way to fly", and simply needed a bit of help in realizing that that is a hypersonic, high-altitude, high-performance aircraft which is a RAPIER and a little oxidizer away from being an SSTO spaceplane. So now to come to an end: from my experience I'd say for a medium sized aircraft it is best to fly between 12-13 km. Even better, burn a little more, and you can pop out of the atmosphere for a bit and avoid all that nasty drag stuff. You do get certain inertial and lever-arm effects, but those aren't really relevant to 'do I have enough lift to stay up'. Chapter 4. Clear editor. Orbiting is the most fun one: the higher the orbit, the less speed you need to maintain to stay in orbit, *and* the less air there is, so that's a double-whammy in terms of reducing fuel consumption. My question is really about controllability. General Electric F-404 Afterburning Turbofan, Stratus-V Cylindrified Monopropellant Tank, Kerbodyne KR-2L+ "Rhino" Liquid Fuel Engine, LFB KR-1x2 "Twin-Boar" Liquid Fuel Engine, T-1 Toroidal Aerospike "Dart" Liquid Fuel Engine, S1 SRB-KD25k "Kickback" Solid Fuel Booster, IX-6315 "Dawn" Electric Propulsion System, AE-FF1 Airstream Protective Shell (1.25m), AE-FF3 Airstream Protective Shell (3.75m), PB-NUK Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator, https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?title=J-404_%22Panther%22_Afterburning_Turbofan&oldid=95515. Strictly speaking this optimisation is unnecessary, but it can win you a bit of range. Here's Mr. Manley using it in his tutorial: @Pvt.Grichmann: I think it's at specific locations on Kerbin, not just anywhere above 18km. rev2023.3.3.43278. *I use FAR these days, which basically means completely replacing every spaceplane and rocket you ever designed to account for its much more realistic aerodynamics. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Make sure we're on the same page with terminology. That's just a guess, though-- perhaps someone more familiar with FAR could weigh in.). FAR is supposed to take aspect into account, but I'm not very experienced with it and cannot advice you as to how it works. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. I've added more engines, more intakes to no avail. Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. So the faster you go the higher you can fly where there is less drag. So long as there's only one high-altitude measurement to take, you should be able to complete a whole set of 3-4 in one flight. Put a couple of radial mount parachutes just above the com and add a reaction wheel. Once you're at that regime, you should be able to cover huge distances on tiny amounts of fuel. Use the reaction wheel to hold your attitude slightly nose down as you float down and you can guide yourself like a paraglider. Since gravity is effectively lower, they don't need as much wing area to maintain altitude-- which, in turn, means less drag, which makes for more efficient flight. There is a very close tolerance to the two speeds. Why do many companies reject expired SSL certificates as bugs in bug bounties? Remember that you need to have intakes somewhere in line with the engine to function at that altitude. The Panther engine can hold 19,000 steady and oscillates around 20,000. Fighting oscillations. high-1 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program By: miklkit This is the current version. The main body is a fuel tank with a Swivel engine at the end. Or it can supercruise at three times the speed of an equivalent Wheesley jet (with nearly equal fuel efficiency) at 15,000 m altitude. Mounting a time-limited rescue mission for kerbal inbound to Kerbin. Also, while you mentioned the TJs most efficient altitude is ~ 5km (I'm not sure, but lets assume it's true), you need to realize that the drag you're getting at that altitude is going to wreck any efficiency gains. It has two modes: The first, Dry mode, is similar to that of the J-33 "Wheesley" Basic Jet Engine, with a bit more thrust. Immediately starting rocket engines at full throttle turned out to make most of my aircrafts totally unstable, turning them up gradually worked way better. This causes the body of your plane to generate additional drag. I was even able to do this with three pairs of Junos instead of the large jet engine pair (I don't have the technology level for that). Yes, you can get into that range with the high end stuff (whiplash engines and ram or shock cone air intakes). You'll notice that usually your prograde marker is slightly below your pitch. To avoid running out of fuel altogether, I have a second plane with small tanks (no oxidizer) attached directly to the jet engines, and the rockets attached behind the fuselage, which is entirely oxidized tanks. In this case lots of fuel is the wrong approach, I can get more than half way around Kerbin on 2 cans of Jet Fuel and a turbojet if I glide most of it. Your link has been automatically embedded. I got this game so I could over-engineer rockets, so I mostly ignore the airplanes. I didn't succeed with his design, though; I always ended up having somehow unstable airplanes. That annoys me but I can't seem to get a design to make it work. Delta-V is the velocity change necessary to perform orbital maneuvers. Using very light "engine rich" planes and "reverse swooping" (building velocity at 10km then gently curving up) you can temporarily get above 20km with Wheesely and Juno. How do you get out of a corner when plotting yourself into a corner. as a rule of thumb they all lose thrust at higher altitudes and at high velocities. Kerbal Space Program Jool Landing Youtube. Building a rocket to fly vertical seems to be nearly impossible, in the atmosphere they tend to become unstable (or maybe I missed a trick?). principle. alternatively, combine a liquid fuel rocket into your plane. Welcome to the forums, ZDW. If you enter the Mun's SOI, it immediately counts as "In Space High over Mun" until you get below 60km Mun altitude. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948095, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948668, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1934517923, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1335577943, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640213502, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640214586, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937826505, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937931692. There's basically three ways to do that: lifting surfaces, thrust, and orbiting. I also added a parachute and decoupler since I find it too hard to correctly land this thing yet ;-) I managed to land in the water once, though. Have you checked out the wiki yet? 1 1: The basics 2 2: Setting it up 3 3: First flight 4 4: Finishing touches 1: The basics First of all, you're going to need an airplane. 1 Pod outside the level 3 VAB. even stranger is that the surface is textured. I'm going to try adding a small solid fuel rocket engine toned down to get the initial height then dump it, as well as check into that high end gear mentioned. Dedicated to the growth and advancement of amateur rocket scientists! Ideally, you'll want to avoid these contracts until you get the High-Altitude Flight tech node and the improved jet engine that comes with it.